Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal - BS Myths

As Co-founder of Texans for Sensible Immigration Policy, I respond (which can be seen in red) to an e-mail that has been sent around to the masses entitled "Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal" by setting the record straight with facts, not fiction!

There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal." Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted. Actually, a lot of Illegals do the same. They use a fake SS number.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table." Actually, a lot of U.S. Citizens do the same. Employers treat them as "sub contractors" to avoid paying matching taxes and providing WC and UE taxes.

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. This  is absurd. A single man with that income, with no dependent children will pay less than 20% in taxes, including Social Security and Medicare. This comes to $10,400 leaving Joe Legal with $41,600. Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. Again, under our current immigration laws, U.S. employers have hired millions of "Jose Illegals" LEGALLY. Their taxes are withheld just like Joe Legal's taxes are withheld. 

Joe Legal Pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $34,400.00. Remember he is paying less than 20% in taxes. Millions of illegals are doing the same thing with fake social security cards.

Joe Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. This is an overstatement. Assuming you are talking about illegals who are not insured (there are millions working for employers with benefits) they are in the same boat as the legal uninsured. Both groups show up at the emergency room for the medical treatment because they cannot be turned away.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal now has $28,400.00. This also implies that Illegals receive welfare and food stamps. This is not true - both welfare and food stamp programs require a VERIFIED valid Social Security ID.  

Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Again, no one gets foods stamps without a verified SS number! Jose Illegal now has $25,200 after food expenses. 

Joe Legal pays rent of $1200.00 per month, or $14,400 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $14,000.00. Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy. Again, not true because of the SS ID requirement.

Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month for rent, or $6000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Why would one think the average Jose Illegal pays any less rent than the average "Joe Legal"? This is a deliberate misrepresentation. Jose Illegal's now has $10,800 after rent expense.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 per year for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00. Actually, he now has $11,600.00. Legal status is no guarantee that someone will buy insurance - again the deck is being stacked.

Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00. If Illegals were allowed to renew their drivers licenses, they could buy liability insurance on the cars and trucks that we sold them. Now, we refuse to renew their drivers licenses?!? So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc. Actually, it is $11,600.00. Yes, he sure does have to make it stretch. Good thing he live in a country that offers more opportunities to people regardless of class or national origin. Everything he buys contributes to our U.S. economy. Everyone should want Joe Legal to succeed. When he succeeds, America succeeds!

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 (the correct number is $10,800) stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month. Jose Illegal can do whatever he wants with his money. But, he also buys goods and services in the United States of America. His money counts the same as Joe Legal.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Also known as getting ahead!

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family. This is a ridiculous characterization. More likely, he is standing on a corner waiting for any job at $10.00 per hour, hoping that the guy that picks him up will pay him. 

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home. They bot get a free lunch and they both study English.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay. What makes you think "Jose" did not pay for these services? In Texas, we pay our police and fire services through local sales and property taxes. If Jose had lived in Texas he would have paid plenty of those. Now consider this: If Jose had lived in Arizona, how likely is it that Jose Illegal will call the police when he is the victim of a crime? He is afraid to report the crime as he knows he is subject to deportation!

Do you get it now?!? Yes, it's obvious that you know very little about Illegal Immigration!

If you vote for or support any politician who supports immigration reform - You are part of the problem! No, you are the problem! Keep it up, and you will drive more legal immigrants to vote for the likes of Obama Socialism! If you can read get you head out of ... and think! God gave you a brain. Use it and support Sensible Immigration Reform. America deserves a sensible immigration policy. Secure our borders and demand a positive ID of every NON-CITIZEN in the country. Deport those with violent criminal records but issue work permits to those we allow to stay. Allow no short cuts to citizenship, except for military service. Establish a penalty tax for non-citizens and their employers as an incentive to hire citizens first! 

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Norman Adams,
You just don't get it.  The federal government can not be trusted to act on any new illegal alien legislation the Feckless Congress may pass.  It has failed to enforce any of the INA for 25 years.  Why would we want to believe they would enforce any new laws?  They do not have the capacity to process the criminal illegal aliens arrested now or service those aliens who are doing it right and going through the system legally.  This is because there is no political will to enforce any of the laws on the books now, so you think they would get the moral courage to enforce new laws?  Perhaps we should change our laws to track the Mexican immigration laws.
When the U.S. government enforces the laws on the books now, ramps up the current legal immigration system, secures the border, and deports all criminal illegal aliens then we can assess the need for new immigration legislation.
  Tell me where I'm going wrong?
Joe The Precinct Chairman
Chairman HCRP Immigration Committee

The failure of the government to stop illegal migration is yet another example of a failing system. There is not enough revenue to really do anything without going deeper in debt to other countries and there is no political will to prioritize expenditures to do so either.

The simple fact of the matter is, there's no money to build a fence or hire more men to enforce the existing laws. We spent it all on socialized health care, bailouts and pay-offs and plain old waste, fraud and abuse. 

No matter how you slice and dice it, all this talk of immigration reform is just political pandering to buy votes. Get used to it, folks. This is what a country in decline looks like -  unable to defend it's borders, unable to pay it's ever increasing debts, moral and social decay, and rampant crime and corruption at all levels.

And we cannot stop it. All they need is one more judge like Elena Kagan on the Supreme Court and it's checkmate, game over. Your guns will be taken away and there will be no recourse to resist or defend yourself from the civil unrest and violence that will surely happen as the country collapses into chaos.

Welcome to the 3rd World, America.

OK.  Hmmm.  Sounds like Norman Adams scratched the surface but did not get in deep, hence the red-lettered commentator disected Norm like a frog in a science class.  Good response, or who ever.

So, everyone moans about illegal immigration but no one give an answer... a real answer.

I am a liberal and always claim that in spite of the media there are intelligent conservative Republicans out there. I want to thank you for a very well thought out response to this irresponsible e-mail that has been circulating throughout the country. 

In California, there are extreme fraud cases over the states welfare program, so while your statements may be true about SS verification on Texas, they are not in California.

In response to your comment "Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?"
Your coverage of property taxes fails to acknowledge how little they  contribute to property taxes.
Whether renting or owning;  using your words, many Illegals will pack the equivalent of 5 or more people per bedroom into a house or rental.

Our property taxes are not setup to support a population with 10 to 20 people per residence.  It cannot be ignored.  It happens far too often.  I have watched it spread in my family's neighborhood over the last decade.  The house across the street has eight vehicles at a single family residence - all in use by adults - the property tax system was not designed to support that many people with an additional six to ten children in a single residence.
The amount of sales tax will not and cannot make up the difference.

Since when did schools or hospitals get property tax and ALSO receive sales tax money in your home town of Houston?  I don't believe city or county sales tax pays for either of these.
They are two of the largest drains illegals have on our system and the property taxes are not designed to cover them.

Schools are being devastated because of the quantity of their children that we are asked to educate.  It is made worse by the addition of extensive resources to teach them in their language. 

We have had a local hospital close because of illegals unable to pay for services. 
Don't try to tell me illegals are paying their fair share of taxes in Texas.  You are lying to yourself if you truly believe this.

So, NO, Jose did not pay plenty of both (sales and property taxes).

# # # #
Your comment -  So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?
Illegals have driven without license and/or insurance for decades.  It often made the newpapers and evening news that an illegal was in an accident and literally ran away from the scene.   Every time there is an attempt to remove a privelege (driving) to assist in enforcing legal entry, someone cries foul. 

# # # #
- they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.
I have been paying money into our Social Security system for 30 years now myself (properly) and somehow I expect I will never collect any of it either.

# # # #
. . . support Sensible Immigration Reform.
It is not only the violent and criminals that should be kept out.
We MUST limit the NUMBER of immigrants.
Based upon your responses to the joe vs. jose, you appear to have no concern for how many are here.  In which case I say your reform is absolutely not sensible.  Without a limit on quantity, all we do is change their status designation from illegal to legal.  The quantity that our nation and society can safely absorb and work with is EXTREMELY CRITICAL.
Our local, state and national services can handle and support immigrants but ONLY to a certain ratio of citizenry.  Numbers above that puts our nation at risk.
As a result, immigration policy must limit the number of entrants such that our own society is not overrun by another.  Immigrants should be absorbed into our society, not the opposite.
Would any other country in the world allow the U.S. to put 10 million to 20 million U.S. citizens in their country and then allow them to demand, march, demonstrate, vote or control that country's polictial structure in any form?  - - it is a rhetorical question; NO country would allow this.

Yes, the 1980's amnesty program provided us with an entire generation of "legals" that were not - and now they march, demonstrate and protest - their children now vote.
It was a bad idea and contributed to the destruction of our country.

When immigration policy allows such massive quantities of people into the country without a safety net to preserve our own society, then it is a bad policy.  It does not matter that entry is illegal when politicians fail to support enforcement or hinder it.

I agree with some of your points but do not believe you go far enough to protect our country.  Our system is collapsing under their burden.  Because our system is incapable of supporting the quantity already here, their numbers must be reduced.  The best way is through elimination of services provided.

I recognize that we need immigration.  It is an integral part of our country and its history; but it must build our nation, NOT destroy it.  


You can't have it both ways. In one statement you say that most illegals do have SSN and pay in. Then in every other case you state they can not get benefits because they don't have a SSN.  And that's not if you are working under the table. This is what this story is about. Most of this would be correct if the illegal had a valid(stolen SSN) and was getting paid cash. Use the benefits by having a SSN, but not putting any money in. It happens all the time. The person who has the SSN doesn’t have a clue it is being used by someone else to wreak the benefits, because no income is being reported. So your counter claim against the email is mostly wrong.

To all you dumb asses who say give them a SSN and amnesty, that is a bad idea. These illegals are brought into the country not only as cheap slave labor but to become a future voting block for these puppet leaders such as Obama. These leaders will give them the promise of voting for socialist and welfare agendas which will run this country into ruin but that's not the main reason. These illegals who have a 5th grade education will vote for things such as gun control which will make the crime rate skyrocket in this country because they believe that it will reduce crime. Also with the banning of firearms you will be powerless to resist a tyrannical government from oppressing you as witnessed in Pinochet's Chile, Hitler's Germany, Stalin's USSR, and Mao's China. If you look at any stupid city in this country that has strict gun control they are the ones with the highest crime and the cities that allow open carry have the least amount of crime. Hmmm go figure. That is the main reason they want illegals here so they can have a  new voting block to change this country and make it spineless and gutless and turn it into another 3rd world cesspit like Mexico. Fuck that. Americans, wake up and kick these illegal invaders out. They have no place in a land of the Constitutional Republic. I am a Hispanic and I see what is going down. I do no have the flock/collective mindset these Reconquista's have. They want a Communist Style government that promises free services to them. They are poorly educated and haven't seen the big picture yet. Kick them out NOW! The will ruin this country just like the real power holders want them to. The real power holders are the financial institutions and banks. They run the show, not some stupid puppet like Obama. They only use people like him to get people to believe in their BS. Obama is a poverty pimp. Kick these bankers and these illegals out of the US. Treat them like they are the Black Plague. We must act now before its too late. We are at the 11th hour now....



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